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Gary Mills & Brian Conway - #003

Gary Mills of Jamsheed Wines and Brian Conway of Izway wines are displaced West Australians living in Melbourne and making wine in Victoria and South Australia respectively.  We catch up in Gary's new slightly built Urban winery and resisted talking about the Fremantle Dockers too much.

Gary:
Jamsheed Wines
Urban Winery
Instagram

Brian:
Izway Wines
Instagram Izway wines

Right click here to and Save As to download this episode to your computer

LINKS

Gary’s ridiculous pozible
Swan Gold
The Left Bank
The Mens Shed - Dunsborough - Murray Mills
Amberley Estate
James Lance
Ridge Vineyards
MacRostie Wines
Bicton Cellars
Dan Standish
Pink Flamingo Hotel Santa Rosa
Gallo
Sorry Rachel Nederbar, can't find a link...
Bill Downie
Old Bridge Cellars
Kermit Lynch
FREMANTLE DOCKERS
Izway - Craig Isbel
Kim Teusner
Torbreck
Yarra Ridge
Bianchet
Mount Mary
Warner Vineyard Beechworth
De Bortoli
Yarra Yering
Clape Cornas Northern Rhone
Denton Vineyards
Ned Goodwin
Wine Diamonds
Fix St James
Wolf & Swill Pizza
Boy Named Sue
Laser Pig
Grace Darling Hotel
Moondog Brewery
Rosenblum Cellars
Noisy Ritual
Urban Winery Sydney
Oakland Urban Wine trail
Kilara Estate
Howard Park
Randy Johnson kills a bird
Essendon Baseball Club
Cath - Imbibo
Printed toilet paper
Carlton Cellars
Goanna Gallery
Trust Tree Brewery FEATURING Happy Brad
Australian Brewery

 

TRANSCRIPT - Not checked for accuracy

 

Gary:
And I get this call and they're like, "Oh, look, your wine's been rejected." I'm like, "Oh, okay. On what basis?" And they're like, "Well, the panel thought that it lacked typicity." And so it lacked typicity?" But I sort of wrote this open letter going like, "Well, if you can explain to me the typical attributes of a single vineyard, Yarra Valley, Cabernet Franc, made as full carbonic maceration, 100% whole bunches, unfiltered, unrefined, early bottling I'll wear it."

Ben:
Hello, and welcome to episode three of Real Wine People. I am in Melbourne for this episode catching up with Gary Mills of Jamsheed Wines and Brian Conway of Izway Wines, both old men... they are old men, both old friends and tragic Fremantle Dockers supporters. We caught up in Preston in Gary's enormous shed that he's turning into an urban winery project. Gary is currently running a crowdfunding campaign, and I believe after speaking today that we've missed the boat, but it did get fully funded.

Ben:
In today's episode, we talk about the opening dates there as well as many other things. That date is looking like it's going to be October for Gary now. And we talk about Trust Tree Brewery in Avalon Beach, another project, and that was supposed to be opened probably about a year ago, but we're looking more like first of November. Head to the website realwinepeople.com, where you'll find show notes with links to what we spoke about today, including links to Gary's crowdfunding campaign.

Ben:
A shortcut is gary.realwinepeople.com will take you to that, so I hope you enjoy this episode with Gary Mills and Brian Conway.

Ben:
I can put them through filters afterwards if you want to sound like Barry White or something.

Gary:
No, I want to sound like I'm under arrest, and this is like I'm a whistleblower for something.

Ben:
Nice.

Gary:
[inaudible 00:02:01].

Ben:
A-B-C.

Brian:
No, he said whistle.

Ben:
Slight introduction here in Preston?

Gary:
Preston.

Ben:
Preston.

Gary:
In North Thornbury.

Ben:
North Thornbury with Gary Mills of Jamsheed and Brian Conway of Izway Wines, in Gary's new ridiculously massive industrial shed that's going to be a winery-

Gary:
Vast.

Ben:
... and a bar.

Gary:
Vast.

Ben:
Night club?

Gary:
Doof Club.

Ben:
Doof Club as well?

Gary:
Yeah, pinger bar.

Ben:
Nice, nice.

Gary:
Nang bar.

Ben:
Nang bar.

Gary:
No, yeah, a pop up bar, a semi-permanent pop up bar, event space.

Ben:
Nice.

Gary:
Community hub.

Ben:
Really?

Gary:
A tourist destination.

Ben:
Nice, right.

Gary:
Whatever I can do to turn it a dollar in it.

Ben:
Fair enough.

Gary:
Because as we know, distro is dead.

Ben:
What's dead?

Brian:
What's dead?

Gary:
Distro. Not disco, disco still lives. Distro, distribution.

Ben:
Oh, right, distro.

Brian:
That's right.

Ben:
I thought it was like some sort of disco bistro.

Gary:
Oh, can you imagine?

Ben:
That would be all right.

Gary:
I might do like a Mexican disco cantina.

Brian:
So it's dead, huh? Done.

Gary:
Oh, it's just hard to make or turn a profit.

Brian:
Yeah, okay.

Gary:
Costs keep getting higher, you know what it's like. Your cost of goods goes up and up and up and there's just now a permanent downward pressure on how much you sell a bottle for. So I'm making less and less every year for making my wine, making the same wine. Unless you're selling like unless you've got a cellar door or an outlet you can sell by the glass. I can sell a glass of wine, I can make a profit on that bottle right there.

Brian:
Yeah, 100%.

Gary:
And then everything after that's just fat.

Brian:
Sure. Yeah, we opened a cellar door 12 months ago, and notice a difference already just to the being able to pay bills.

Gary:
You don't need much. It's just constant turnover like a little bit more value add and stuff, isn't it?

Brian:
Yeah.

Gary:
I reckon if I can probably sell like 15, 20% of my stock through the cellar door, I'm going to make 60, 70% percent more than what I do at the moment than distro.

Brian:
You should do that in a with cantor. I'd imagine.

Gary:
In a what?

Brian:
In a cantor.

Gary:
I reckon it will work, yeah. The corporate functions and the weddings and the whole... yeah, I mean the first 6 months will by like a honeymoon tire kicking period I guess. But I mean how many people do you get through your cellar door?

Ben:
Uh, I don't know, I've got an app for that.

Gary:
Oh you do.

Ben:
Well not the people that are through but the people that certainly buy.

Gary:
Yep.

Ben:
Lets have a look. So how did you, how did you get into wine?

Gary:
I started, it's just drinking. I came into it from a very much a consumer point. I was never a trained sommelier. I was never a trained wine maker, no history, no family in wine.

Ben:
Sure.

Gary:
I mean I've, the point that I've got into wine I was a Japanese speaking tour guide in Cairns, in Queensland.

Ben:
Right, which is how most people get into-

Gary:
It is, it's a natural progression.

Ben:
Yeah.

Brian:
Yeah. Straight away.

Ben:
Of course. Mango wine. Standard wine. Bang.

Gary:
Kiwi fruit wine, exactly. What do they call it, Cane Toad wine.

Ben:
Yes.

Gary:
No, I'd been living in London and I had been working in good bars there. I got introduced and exposed to really good wine in London working for a couple of good gastropubs and stuff.

Ben:
Yep

Gary:
So I got to see some interesting wines and stuff that I'd never seen before, because I grew up with my dad drinking, literally, drinking Swan Gold and Swan Valley shiraz and stuff. And that was it.

Ben:
Good man, good man.

Gary:
Yeah it, it was there, but it wasn't like, it was a very narrow experience I was having with wine and alcohol at that time, you know?

Ben:
Yeah.

Gary:
And then, were all the same like, the left bank, it was more or less about quality that it was about quantity.

Ben:
Absolutely, yeah.

Gary:
Yeah and you could just chug it down as much as you could get.

Ben:
It's always about free drinks for me, because one of my great mates worked there, and then it turns out one of my other great mates, and my other great mates worked there.

Gary:
They all work there.

Ben:
Yeah it's crazy.

Brian:
Yeah, that's ridiculous.

Ben:
Now what year was that, when we were both working at the Left Bank.

Gary:
That would have been '97.

Ben:
Yeah, true.

Gary:
That's when I was getting... I went back to study viticulture then.

Ben:
Okay, where'd you study that?

Gary:
At Curtin.

Ben:
And you were working Left Bank at that point?

Gary:
Working Left Bank, living in Freo.

Ben:
Tough times, mate.

Gary:
Yeah. It was fun.

Ben:
The place used to crank back then.

Gary:
Yeah, it was hard, it was a heathen.

Ben:
Probably still does, I just don't-

Gary:
Yeah it's different sort of vibe now.

Brian:
Yeah, 10 beers for 150 now as opposed to 5 bucks. It's a bit different.

Gary:
Is that what it is now?

Brian:
That's what I used to pay when my friend was working there.

Gary:
Ah, yeah, right.

Brian:
Who shall remain nameless.

Ben:
Does she pay? Does she...

Gary:
Couldn't just get drinks card every day. But yeah, so I remember I was in London, and I needed change so I thought I could speak, I knew I could speak limited Japanese, so I went to Cairns and had a mate, he was working there and was like "Come work, I'll get you a job" like that, and we were making heaps of coin, and then the Japanese bubble economy burst.

Ben:
Oh, okay.

Gary:
So I ,literally, went from making total bank every week to making nothing, within three months it was just this drop and we were like "This has gone nuts on it, I'm out." So I, literally, just called my dad and was like, "Hey, look, I want a break. I'm just going to come back to W.A" He still lives in Yallingup. [crosstalk 00:06:55] Quindalup.

Ben:
Quindalup, yup. Used to service the tractors.

Gary:
Yeah yeah, he still does the odd bit.

Brian:
Yeah, he's in charge of the Men's Shed now [crosstalk 00:07:01] We just spoke to him the other day about getting him to make some beehive frames for us.

Gary:
Yeah, yeah, yeah oh that's you?

Brian:
Yeah, well Simon, who works with us approached him.

Gary:
So he keeps talking about making heaps. He's doing all weird mirrors and blowers and just tinkering around, so he can't stop so [crosstalk 00:07:15].

Ben:
Cool.

Gary:
Yeah, no, I was just like "Do you know anyone who's got any work?" And he's like "Ah yeah, we've got a mate who works at Amberley Estate, do you want to [inaudible 00:07:23] get you a vineyard job" So I got the vineyard job and then started studying viticulture, I thinking I would start into wine there, get into the industry then. But then, literally, met, and this is where I met Brian we got, I had a Kiwi mate who was working at Amberley and he like "Ah man, come to California" and I was like "But I don't have any experience" and he was like "Nah, just lie, lie about how much experience you've got"

Brian:
20 year anniversary mate.

Gary:
I saw James Lance last night.

Brian:
Yeah nice, so 20 years.

Gary:
20 years, wow, fuck, it's gone-

Brian:
Well you haven't aged, not a bit.

Gary:
No, not at all.

Ben:
So where was Brian working when you-

Gary:
Well, so yeah, see, he... I was at Ridge Vineyards. You were at-

Brian:
No, I hadn't started. I had just done 2 weeks work experience with you.

Gary:
No, in California.

Brian:
And then went to... Oh, California I was at MacRostie.

Gary:
MacRostie.

Brian:
MacRostie Wines.

Gary:
In Sonoma or [crosstalk 00:08:14].

Brian:
In Sonoma.

Gary:
Yeah.

Brian:
Yeah.

Ben:
So just from my brain, so you were 97 Left Bank, what '98-

Gary:
'98 at Ridge Vineyards. Oh no sorry, '98 at Amberley.

Ben:
One year at Amberley?

Gary:
Not even that, one season.

Ben:
Just pruning season? Or...

Gary:
I did sampling.

Ben:
Okay.

Gary:
Sampling and picking and harvesting, just all [crosstalk 00:08:34].

Brian:
Just the Chinon. Just the Chinon though.

Gary:
Just Chinon. Only Chinon.

Ben:
Yeah, cool.

Gary:
Just didn't want to touch anything else. Only minimally pruned Chinon at that, because I love powdery mildew, it makes me strong.

Brian:
God, the amount of Chinon Amberley used to pump out.

Ben:
So I met you Brian at the Applecross Cellars?

Brian:
Bicton Cellars.

Ben:
Bicton Cellars.

Gary:
Bicton Cellars. I remember-

Brian:
I was the [inaudible 00:08:53] manager of Bicton Cellars.

Ben:
[inaudible 00:08:54] manager. And then came down did vintage and then-

Brian:
No. I just came down and I saw you for... I said, "Ah, Ben, I've got this..." What was it called? I [crosstalk 00:09:04]-

Gary:
IUD?

Brian:
Oh, thank you [crosstalk 00:09:07]-

Gary:
IUD.

Brian:
International Education-

Gary:
Isn't IUD.

Brian:
... Agriculture Exchange, or whatever it was.

Gary:
Yeah, it's CAEP.

Brian:
So I wasn't even close.

Gary:
California Agricultural-

Brian:
So I was like, "Oh, Ben, I've-"

Gary:
With the Schmuckster.

Brian:
Yeah, that's right, Schmuck.

Gary:
Chuck Schmuck. [crosstalk 00:09:21]-

Brian:
And when-

Gary:
Seriously, Charles Schmuck was the guy who's organizing it-

Ben:
Oh, really.

Brian:
Yeah.

Gary:
Chuck Schmuck. He was a nice guy.

Brian:
Interesting guy. Yeah.

Gary:
He was a nice guy. Everyone else were fucking douche bags, but-

Brian:
Yeah, fair enough.

Gary:
Remember we got arrested? Well, she tried to get us arrested that-

Brian:
Ah, yeah.

Gary:
We were nude swimming, so I... Brian and I and James Lance from Punch wines, we all met-

Brian:
And Dan Standish from [crosstalk 00:09:39]-

Gary:
And Dan Standish. We all met at the Pink Flamingo Hotel in downtown Santa Rosa.

Brian:
Amazing hotel.

Gary:
It was a awesome... It was like, literally, something out of-

Brian:
Rotating flamingos.

Gary:
... Rotating, massive, neon pink flamingos.

Ben:
Yeah, sure. It's still there, or?

Brian:
Like, ah. I hope so.

Gary:
Yeah, it's still there, yep, yep.

Ben:
We should buy it, for here. Maybe we could get it-

Gary:
For the Santa Rosa's wwww. That pink flamingo would be good, but Santa Rosa's gone... it's a bit pants at the moment. I think it's become a bit of a meth dive these days from what I've heard.

Brian:
Great.

Gary:
Not the greatest place on earth, but anyways, so they got... what was it, about 300? Wine making students and [inaudible 00:10:08] kids, who were all in California at the same time. Put them all into the Pink Flamingo Hotel with a whole lot of duty free booze and a whole lot of hormones, what did they think was going to happen? So it was like a sex [crosstalk 00:10:20]-

Brian:
Only good things.

Gary:
It literally was a sex party. It was a drunk sex orgy. The whole way [crosstalk 00:10:24] it was the bast time-

Ben:
Is that right Brian? Can you-

Gary:
Yes, he... Brian will testify-

Brian:
Now look at... it was.

Gary:
Testify Brian, testify.

Ben:
It was.

Brian:
Yeah, look, it was.

Gary:
It was so much fun.

Brian:
It was great.

Gary:
So the last night-

Brian:
Very good.

Gary:
... though everyone was getting stuck in the duty free liquor, and we decided we'd go skinny dipping. It was nice and warm. We were still just coming into summer. So we went skinny dipping in the pool. Who was running the whole thing, called the cops on us trying to get us arrested.

Brian:
Yeah. What was? Wendy.

Gary:
And we're like, "Come on." Wendy or something.

Brian:
Yeah.

Gary:
I don't know. So I'm sitting there talking to California Highway Patrolmen, nude. Trying not to get stuck in the back of a patrol car. I might too, come on. [crosstalk 00:11:01]-

Brian:
Just how we couldn't sleep.

Gary:
Just took a swim without my clothes on. I just forgot my bathing suit. [crosstalk 00:11:05]-

Ben:
Which can happen.

Gary:
That just often [crosstalk 00:11:06]-

Brian:
It was a balmy, truly a balmy evening.

Gary:
Yeah, so that's where we met. And then so I took off and worked at Ridge Vineyards mainly in Monte Bello, so the south of San Francisco.

Ben:
Sure.

Gary:
In the Santa Cruz Mountains.

Ben:
Yes.

Gary:
Yeah, Brian went out to MacRostie, James went to Gallo, and then we've sort of been great friends every since. It's amazing so then, the people that I met back then I'm still friends with and say like, Rach [inaudible 00:11:30].

Brian:
Yep.

Gary:
Do you know Bill Danny's partner?

Ben:
No, I don't know.

Gary:
Okay. Met her, she was-

Brian:
Yeah, it's lovely-

Gary:
Yeah, and she was-

Brian:
... great people.

Gary:
And she was working for Old Bridge Cellars the imports there, and then-

Brian:
Oh, that's right, yeah.

Gary:
... went to Kermit Lynch, and then... So it's just all these people, you just continue to see. So, yeah, it's great.

Brian:
I mean the fact that we're doing a podcast now, with the guy that got me my first... If I hadn't had done that two weeks. So the guy that arranged it said, "Ah, look, you have to have vintage experience." I said, "Hang on, hang on. If I do two weeks at my mates place, does that mean I'll be the first person from Australia that's ever got a job that hasn't done vintage." He goes, "Yes." I said, "We're going to do this."

Gary:
Nice.

Brian:
So, yeah.

Gary:
Two weeks is a vintage.

Brian:
It was not, but it was great. I learnt a lot.

Gary:
You can get things done in a vintage.

Brian:
I learnt a lot.

Gary:
God knows I've given kids a flick after one week, and they call that a vintage, so-

Brian:
Yeah.

Ben:
And then in Melbourne now with only weekend the Fremantle Dockers aren't playing, so usually shot to those games.

Gary:
I think we are just saving our souls a whole lot of misery or-

Brian:
What? What today?

Gary:
Yeah, mate.

Brian:
Why?

Gary:
Just imagine-

Brian:
Did we not see the win last week?

Gary:
No, no I'm just saying-

Ben:
You were hung over buddy.

Gary:
... if we went to a game, it would be a guaranteed loss.

Ben:
Which it always was.

Gary:
It always was. Whenever we go-

Ben:
We'd be playing Melbourne, bottom of the ladder, we come across, last game of the season-

Gary:
We'd loss by 15 goals.

Ben:
Yeah, it'd be crazy.

Brian:
We've been to some winning games.

Gary:
We've seen a couple.

Ben:
Have we?

Brian:
I don't-

Gary:
I just get this awful feeling I'm a bit of a hex on Fremantle [crosstalk 00:12:55]-

Brian:
Doesn't exist. The hex doesn't exist. Just doesn't.

Gary:
Okay.

Ben:
Well, this weekend we're guaranteed to not lose. So that's pretty-

Gary:
We're guaranteed to come out of it unscathed.

Brian:
We lost a lot... so, I mean-

Gary:
Lost what?

Brian:
Lost a lot blobs out with injury.

Gary:
Oh, right.

Brian:
Yeah, so Ballantyne's coming back in [crosstalk 00:13:08] to block-

Gary:
Oh, great.

Brian:
Should be great. [crosstalk 00:13:12] Should do well, and Bennell might start.

Gary:
Oh, god.

Ben:
Yeah, well that'll be good.

Brian:
Maybe.

Gary:
With one calf.

Brian:
Nah, he's an all right mate.

Ben:
He could borrowed Aaron Sandilands' other calf.

Gary:
Putting [crosstalk 00:13:21] the Frank [crosstalk 00:13:21]-

Ben:
Yeah, he'd be running in circles. That's true.

Gary:
I haven't lost a lot of footy this year.

Brian:
I don't know.

Ben:
Yeah, me too.

Gary:
I think because I've been hanging out with you so much. I just haven't watched a lot, so.

Brian:
Yeah, well, that's right. Yeah, I mean, it's been a bit busy has it. But I watched that Collingwood game.

Gary:
Oh, the one we won after the [crosstalk 00:13:37]-

Brian:
Yeah. Well, I kind of walked in and out of the room, because I don't know it's one of those things-

Gary:
You were going to kick the TV were you?

Brian:
I just thought my heart was going to probably [crosstalk 00:13:43] my chest.

Gary:
Well, [inaudible 00:13:45].

Brian:
Which is kind of part and parcel of being a Fremantle fan. Yeah, death it could be imminent.

Gary:
Along with [crosstalk 00:13:50]. The masochism. Slight masochistic tendency.

Ben:
Speaking of masochism, when did you start Izway then?

Brian:
'03, right with Craig. [inaudible 00:14:02], Craig is gone.

Ben:
What did that entail? Just bonds and fruit?

Brian:
Yeah, it was half a ton of 100 year old Ebenezer Shiraz that Ken [inaudible 00:14:11] got for us.

Ben:
Cool.

Brian:
Izzy made the three, four, five and the six, and then I started making-

Gary:
Was that at [inaudible 00:14:20] when he was doing that, or?

Brian:
Yeah.

Gary:
Yeah.

Brian:
I mean, I started-

Gary:
Nice digs.

Brian:
Yeah, it was good. We're very luck to be... Extremely luck to be able to do that. You know what it's like to not... You know the opposite side of the coin. Having to pay a heck of a lot of money to lease spaces-

Gary:
Or [inaudible 00:14:35] coin.

Brian:
Well, no... well, there is now because I saw my share-

Gary:
There's not rarely coin, but-

Brian:
... I think probably that night there was none. But yeah, we're very luck to be able to use their equipment and the space. But aye. Yeah, we just started with half a ton.

Ben:
And then you ended up buying a pretty old vineyard?

Brian:
Yeah, bought a 1901 planted grenache vineyard in Seppeltsfield, in '06. Turned that into a fully sustainable solar powered winery, so off-grid. The only off-grid winery in the Barossa Valley.

Ben:
Cool.

Gary:
Cool. Zombie apocalypse are, I'm coming to make wine at your place.

Brian:
Ah, nice. Do it.

Gary:
I know you're not there anymore.

Brian:
No, I've sold, yeah. Sorry. Damn. But Craig always liked you anyways, so you're always welcome.

Ben:
Craig will have weapons, and you'll have weapons for sure.

Gary:
Yeah, I can't have [crosstalk 00:15:20] weapons at all-

Brian:
That was the only thing I didn't buy before I left. I thought, we've got to get some guns.

Gary:
God, damn, we tried, so.

Ben:
Yeah, right. And then when did you start and how did-

Gary:
'03.

Ben:
... you start Jamsheed? Okay, cool.

Gary:
Same thing. I came back from Cali... I was sort of intended to move back to Margaret and try and do something there, but really didn't have any idea, but I took a... I think you got me the contract at... you put me in touch with the people at what was Yarra Ridge-

Brian:
Yes, I did Gary.

Gary:
... in the [crosstalk 00:15:45]-

Brian:
I'm still waiting for the wine [crosstalk 00:15:46]-

Gary:
I'm give you a hug after they've finished here. I'll buy you a pizza.

Brian:
But the Brianna-

Ben:
The three Brians.

Brian:
It was great to help you. Yarra was so stoked you came over [crosstalk 00:16:00]-

Gary:
Yeah, it was good. I did night shift, it was great fun. But you were doing day shift, right?

Brian:
Yeah.

Gary:
Yeah. It was an interesting experience. It was sort of... It was interesting coming from having worked at Ridge Vineyards, which is very, I mean, for those who don't know Ridge, they are like the pinnacle of sort of quality wine in California. Their-

Brian:
Yeah, amazing wines.

Gary:
... level of quality, their level care, the level of investment in everything is fantastic. And then coming back to what, at the time, was a processing plant, effectively.

Ben:
Sure.

Gary:
And it really made no difference, it could have been tuna, then what we're doing. It was like, get that shit into that tank, and then it gets on a truck and it goes to the mothership.

Ben:
Right.

Gary:
And I'm like, "Oh." And I remember one day looking at this fruit coming in, some really nice shiraz from [inaudible 00:16:48]Valley vineyard. And I was like, "Yeah, man this fruit is pristine. This is awesome." And here I am all guns blazing sort of at 29 think I'm fucking king shit and know everything about wine already after to vintages. And it turns up... And there was a job sheet with it, and it was like, add everything.

Ben:
Right.

Gary:
Add acid, add-

Brian:
Tannin.

Gary:
... tannin, add this, add yeast, add dap, add dah, dah, dah, dah, and I'm just like, ah, man, this doesn't need. This shit's bright. So I called up, who shall remain unnamed, but just... because it was early in the shift, and I was just like, "Ah, man, why don't you just come have a look at this fruit? It doesn't need any of this stuff man. It's just tip top. You really want to have a look at this." And there's this pause, and he's like, "Who the fuck do you think you are? Take your fucking head and stick in..." I'm like, "Okay."

Ben:
Wow.

Gary:
It's like, I've got to get out of here and do my thing.

Ben:
Yeah, right.

Gary:
So then as soon as-

Brian:
So we did.

Gary:
So we did, yeah. I did a lot of contract wine making for people.

Ben:
Yeah.

Gary:
So there was this little place called [inaudible 00:17:49] which still [crosstalk 00:17:50] exists, actually-

Brian:
Yeah, that's right, yeah, the [inaudible 00:17:51], yeah.

Gary:
... in the Coldstream Woods.

Brian:
Your first syrah?

Gary:
Yeah. So I looked after the vineyard and then made the wines for them. Which was great. It was an old vineyard, it's never really had as much notoriety as it should, because it's as old as Mount Mary's. It right around the corner from Mount Mary and nice old vineyard. Had some really beautiful [inaudible 00:18:07] old Italian fruit wine.

Brian:
Didn't have a lot of care though. You went in and pruned it.

Gary:
I cut it back. I stripped the whole thing back and yeah, that's what I tried to reinvigorate the vineyard. It was good. I mean, that was '03, so the first one I released was in '03 shiraz [inaudible 00:18:23] from that vineyard, which was good, and that got me on the way. It's a hard sog, and I went into it with a $10000 mask, which I'm still paying off.

Ben:
Well, nice.

Gary:
So that's still there.

Brian:
I just put them in the glove box-

Gary:
... so-

Brian:
... and just move on.

Gary:
Yeah. And from there ended up leasing a winery in Silvan-

Ben:
Sure.

Gary:
... which was a small place, and did the same thing. It was sort of... My company, Jamsheed, was really built on the back of contract wine making, so 90% of the wines I would make would be for other people. And then I'd have a little for me, and then it sort of just gradually got to the point now, it's the other way, so 95% for me, and 5% for other people that I make.

Ben:
Great and you'll be making some of that 5% in this shed?

Gary:
Yeah, it's only vineyard that I actually work with now.

Ben:
Cool.

Gary:
It's restricted to the people who will grow fruit for me. At the moment it's the Warner vineyard up in Beechworth. I make some wine for them off their vineyards.

Brian:
I did '05 vintage with you.

Gary:
Yeah, that was in [crosstalk 00:19:25].

Brian:
Yeah. And wasn't that the first year you did a whole bunch-

Gary:
Yeah.

Brian:
A 100% [crosstalk 00:19:31]-

Gary:
No, not a 100%, no it was 60%. The first full year-

Brian:
Yeah, okay.

Gary:
... a whole bunch was '08.

Brian:
That's right.

Ben:
And was there much of that going on as far as you know?

Gary:
Bits and pieces. The De Brotoli's were doing, as still do, do really good things with their syrah.

Ben:
Yeah.

Gary:
And they were one of the only people calling it syrah at the time. Yeah, Yarra Yering have always done a whole bunch, but it's not technically a whole bunch they kind of use, teabag, like they use stems, but not necessarily a whole bunch. [crosstalk 00:19:55]-

Ben:
Oh [crosstalk 00:19:55]-

Brian:
Who's that?

Ben:
Yering.

Gary:
Yarra yering.

Brian:
Oh, okay.

Gary:
Yeah, by the carousels. Mary always did a lot of whole bunch with her pinots and things, but in terms of syrah and you also got to think that Yarra Valley's never really been known for syrah, so that was always sort of pinot. It still is known for... and now with climate change will probably is better for syrah cabarnet then it actually is suited to pinot chard.

Ben:
Yeah, okay.

Gary:
But yeah, doing that too, the syrah, it's not like I was reinventing the wheel. I mean, the whole thing with wine and the style of wines I've always made is that I only ever tried to impersonate the wines I like to drink. And I was really lucky when I was at Ridge Vineyards in California, I was... Paul Draper's really good friend with... I had a good relationship with Kermit Lynch. The Berkeley wine importer, beaker place wine importer. So we got to drink so seriously good beer.

Ben:
Great.

Gary:
And a lot of it. And I just sort of found I was naturally sort of drawn to the things that had a whole bunch, stems inclusion, yeah. A lot of that Morgon stuff and the Clap and the northern rain stuff that had a really high percentage of whole bunches and so I just was like, "Yeah, what happens if we do this?"

Ben:
Yeah, nice.

Brian:
You're probably selling yourself a little bit short there. I mean, you really kind of, I think, started the revolution of whole bunch shiraz in the country. I think... Oh, no, you are.

Gary:
Because I was an early adopter. I think they were definitely other people doing it.

Brian:
Yeah there was, but I think on a real sort of commercially well-known scale you really lit the fire for a lot of other kids in the industry to have a crack-

Gary:
[crosstalk 00:21:21] if that's the case, then good.

Brian:
Well, it's just the truth.

Ben:
And I think also what happened, there was that big hoo-ha about one of your whole bunch wines, the cabernet. A lot of people don't know, but to export wine you have to get it tested for all the specs, and it's got to make sure it's not too much VA or et cetera, meet the legal limits of the country you're going into. But there used to be a tasting panel that used to taste your wine-

Gary:
A panel of our peers.

Ben:
A panel of our peers would taste the wine-

Brian:
One of our peers actually used to do that. She actually did vintage with us, Kim Jackson, or Kim Johnson was her name then.

Gary:
No, I know her.

Brian:
She only did it... I don't think she tested your wine, so don't hold it against her.

Gary:
I know. No, I kind of wish they'd bring that panel back. It was the greatest marketing I ever had.

Ben:
Yeah, so talk us through that. How did all that go down?

Gary:
It was one of the first times I was actually exporting, because... It was a 2011 Yarra Valley Cabernet Franc, ma petit francine is the name of it. So it was a Yarra Valley, Coldstream, single vineyard, oldish vine, cabernet franc. 2011 was, I don't know if you remember in Yarra Valley it was a pretty difficult vintage, it was pretty wet. It's the most rainfall, the coldest day temp, we've ever had across a vintage. I don't think it hit a day over 32 or something like that, it was not a lot of sunshine. So there was point when we're like, "I don't think we're actually going to get any fruit at all."

Brian:
It was shitful. I think [crosstalk 00:22:38]-

Gary:
Shitful for it, still some of the best white ever made.

Brian:
The white wines were... there was some lovely chardonnays, yeah.

Gary:
But again, like the '11 reds now I've still got a whole bunch there, and I'm reselling them after they looked so good.

Ben:
It's funny, kind of like [crosstalk 00:22:51]-

Brian:
It was not shitful for Gary, but it was pretty shitful.

Gary:
Oh, no, it definitely was shitful in terms of trying to sell the wine and trying to get the message across that it wasn't as bad as it was. But anyway, I made a... I thought, okay, I'm going to have to do something else. I'll find what fruits available Friends vineyard, Denton vineyard had some cabernet franc. Was like, all right I'll do that. And had a Californian girl working for me at the time, and she's like, "Well, what are you going to do?" And I was like, "I don't know. What I normally do, just 100% whole bunch and..." And so that was the first time I actually really went full no sulfur, carbonic maceration, cap on, lots of draws-

Ben:
So that was the first vintage of that cab franc?

Gary:
Yeah, 2011, yeah.

Ben:
Ah, okay, cool.

Gary:
But I'd been making syrah, but it was a 100% carbonic maceration, but then post the cab mac period it would get long term extended maceration, so the cab mac effect would sort of lessen it and become more about whole bunches and sort of different level of extraction. Whereas with the cab franc it was really just there two weeks, on skins, whole bunch, pressed out, a couple barrels. Just barrelfull at three months till the malo finish and then bottle it. And I had my Japanese importers who... and at the time this is when the panel was around.

Ben:
Yeah.

Gary:
But my Japanese importer was Nate Goodwin, well, it's Ned Goodwin and Carl [crosstalk 00:24:05]-

Ben:
Sure, Wine Diamonds-

Gary:
Wine Diamonds in Japan, oh great. And Ned come out one day and was tasting this wine, and was like, "This is awesome. I think we need this. I want to take some of this to Japan." I'm like, "yeah, cool. All right." So it was five dozen, something like that, 60 bottles.

Ben:
Yeah.

Gary:
But of course, because it was as part of a larger pallet consolidation, you had to get it-

Ben:
So what's the rule? The rule is under-

Gary:
Under a 100 liters.

Ben:
Okay, which is, 11 cases is 99-

Gary:
But that's the total shipment.

Ben:
Sure.

Brian:
Oh, right, okay [crosstalk 00:24:31], yeah, I didn't know that.

Gary:
Yeah, so if it was part of a larger shipment you had to get it tested, [crosstalk 00:24:36] oh, Christ, okay.

Brian:
Far out.

Gary:
Which was sending two bottles at my own cost, and this is a wine I made 80 cases of, so there wasn't a lot of it around, anyway.

Ben:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gary:
Two bottles at my own cost to South Australia, you pay for the export analysis [crosstalk 00:24:51]-

Ben:
The VI ones, yeah-

Gary:
VI ones and the J ones and stuff you had to do, which is a couple of hundred bucks. And me just so naively just going like, "Oh, that's fine. I'll just..." And so this was just at the point where the pallet was about to ship. So I stuck it on a pallet and shipped it port.

Ben:
Sure.

Gary:
And we were just waiting for the export analysis, and the data to come back and the continuing programs and stuff. And I get this call, and they're like, "Oh, look, your wine's been rejected." I'm like, "Oh, okay. On what basis?" And they're like, "Well, it's..." And I was like, "Well is there something wrong with the numbers?" Because there's legal limits of volatile acidity and sort of other bits. And they're going, "No, no, no. It passed all of them, but it didn't pass the tasting panel." And I was like, "All right, and what exactly was wrong with it?"

Gary:
And they said, "Well, one of the panel thought it was microbiologically unstable because it had CO2 in it." And I like, "Well-"

Ben:
What?

Gary:
... "that's just dissolved carbon dioxide. It's not-"

Ben:
You know champagne wouldn't be microbiologically [crosstalk 00:25:43]-

Gary:
Yeah exactly.

Ben:
And it still goes [crosstalk 00:25:46] drinking.

Gary:
And I was like, "I don't know. Okay, well it's not. Can you check the 4-EP?" It was like, I had the 4-EP checked for brettanomyces, there's nothing there. So it was relatively stable, it wasn't the most stable wine going around. And she's like, "Oh, it was also cloudy." I'm like, "Yeah, it's unfiltered."

Ben:
Wow.

Gary:
And she's going, "But actually what's really sold it is that the panel thought that it lacked typicity." And I was like, "it lacked typicity?" And they're saying, "Yeah, it sort..." So in there view-

Ben:
Of the variety-

Gary:
Of the variety-

Ben:
Right.

Gary:
... and it wasn't representative enough of Australian wine and wasn't going to represent Australian wine well enough.

Ben:
Sure.

Gary:
So the deal was that they tasted another bottle, which is the same people the next day, tasting the same wine. So low and behold it got rejected again. And look I might have innocently just put something on Twitter.

Brian:
So it still lacked typicity the day?

Gary:
Still lacked typicity the next day. It's amazing, didn't change. But I sort of wrote this open letter-

Brian:
So it must have been stable then-

Gary:
Yeah, it was-

Brian:
Yeah.

Gary:
Perfect. [crosstalk 00:26:47]-

Ben:
Just fine.

Gary:
No bottle wear.

Brian:
Just typicity.

Gary:
But I sort of write this open letter going like, "Well, if you can explain to me the typical attributes of a single vineyard, Yarra Valley, Cabernet Franc, made as full carbonic maceration, 100% whole bunches, unfiltered, unrefined, early bottling, I'll wear it."

Ben:
Yeah, I remember seeing that.

Gary:
Yeah.

Ben:
That was pretty cool.

Gary:
Yeah. It was fun. I kind of wish-

Brian:
Yeah, I remember that too.

Gary:
I wish they'd never closed the panel. I sold more wine on the back of that. I sold, for the five dozen I didn't get to export to Japan because I had to pull it off the shipment. I sold 20 dozen, 30 dozen the next day, full retail. Out of people just going, up yours Wine Australia. This wine must be good. And there were people in... there was a place in Sydney-

Brian:
Pete's?

Gary:
... who then started a wine list... yeah.

Ben:
Yeah.

Gary:
He started a separate page in his wine list of wines that were rejected by Wine Australia.

Ben:
Oh, that's great.

Brian:
Didn't you do that?

Ben:
Ah, he's kind of greasy.

Brian:
He's good for so many reasons, but that's just so good.

Gary:
Yeah, so I looked like, this is gold. So literally, it's one of the best things I ever did. And then I... it wasn't me that shut down... it wasn't that wine there's a bigger case of a larger corporate winery, one of larger-

Brian:
Friends.

Gary:
... one of our nations larger wineries that got their most exported white wine from Australia got rejected on the grounds of excessive sulfides.

Ben:
Right.

Gary:
And they took them to court and it was a absolute shit fight, so then it got shut down.

Ben:
How long after your letter did it get shut down?

Gary:
Three months, four months, so thing like that.

Ben:
Yeah, okay.

Gary:
Definitely before the next vintage.

Ben:
Sure. That's crazy.

Gary:
Well, it's a shame actually. Like I said, I've got all these other wines, do you want to reject them?

Brian:
Yeah [crosstalk 00:28:10]-

Gary:
I need to sell them.

Brian:
Imagine the list, you would have just been all over it.

Ben:
But I think after disbanding that to me it seemed like... I know with the timing with one of our larger corporate friends and lawyers, but it seemed like there was so much more crazy low fi-

Gary:
Oh, man, it opened up-

Ben:
... natural, whatever you want to call it that was opening up, but opening up to the world. And then I think that coincided with a lot of people seeing it overseas, coming back searching these things out. But a lot of my friends who were sort of working in overseas places. Sort of seeing this year and then coming back and not finding it here, because our local market still hadn't really-

Gary:
Nah, hadn't caughten on.

Ben:
Yeah.

Gary:
2011 was the beginning of the revolution. It's when a lot of the shackles started to fall off, and there was a lot of micro-producers around, making really interesting stuff, and bucking the trend of high alcohol, extracted Australian wine. Which wasn't really selling at the time anyway. Australian exports had never been at a lower ebb around that sort of... from the 2000s on, it was really struggling. And even the case with, not just that cabernet franc that got rejected, the 2011 vintage, which was for Australians, was probably the largest... I made pinots in 2012 that had more color than the syrahs I was making in 2011. You know?

Ben:
Right.

Gary:
You couldn't sella bottle of it in Australia. There were journals who had basically panned the entire vintage and written off the entire Victorian vintage based on what they'd seen the weather to be like, and the initial taste of a few wines that they had tasted. So we couldn't sell a bottle of 2011, but 2011 was the first time I started exporting to Japan, US, and UK. And their reaction when they saw the 2011s were like, "This is the kind of wine we've been waiting for from Australia. We're so sick of this high octane, muscular, sort of thick, syrupy blown out Australian wines, we want wines with freshness and acid that we can serve on the table."

Gary:
I sold more of the 2011 syrahs overseas than I ever sold in Australia that year.

Ben:
Wow.

Gary:
Because you basically just couldn't sell them. That's my mate with my glycol system.

Ben:
Oh, cool, cool.

Brian:
Well, your [inaudible 00:30:18] almost empty, so-

Gary:
All right, are you going to close it.

Brian:
Just leave it running. What's the worse that could happen?

Gary:
But if you make Wolf your last appointment on Wednesday-

Brian:
Good man.

Ben:
Oh, yeah.

Gary:
And then I'll come and join you for a beer and a pizza.

Ben:
Okay, cool.

Gary:
Because [inaudible 00:30:34] got the pizza oven that's going to park there. So I'm going to have a permanent fire pizza oven right here.

Brian:
who's going to do the bar?

Gary:
I'll do the bar.

Brian:
Yeah.

Gary:
Eventually, I'll have to hire a venue manager and stuff. And Erica, my girl, she wants to work there as well.

Brian:
That's good.

Gary:
It only starts a 4:00. It's only Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday to begin with.

Brian:
Oh, great.

Ben:
Yeah, tell us more about this place.

Gary:
Ah, this place, so-

Ben:
It's got a new glycol chiller off-

Gary:
Yeah.

Ben:
... the guys at...

Gary:
Wolf and Swill.

Ben:
Wolf and Swill.

Gary:
If you haven't been there, best pizza in Melbourne right now.

Ben:
Okay.

Gary:
Well, do you remember... remember A Boy Named Sue that used to be in... near James' place, up in [crosstalk 00:31:11]-

Brian:
Yes, I remember, right [crosstalk 00:31:12]-

Gary:
So [inaudible 00:31:12] was the guy who created that, so he's the brains behind that, and he's since done Lazerpig in the city, which is really good.

Brian:
Oh, yeah.

Gary:
You'd be selling wine there I reckon?

Brian:
No, idea mate.

Gary:
Probably.

Brian:
I'll tell you tomorrow.

Gary:
It's the kind of place that would love your gear, so-

Brian:
Right.

Ben:
Right, notice we're luck we're recording it.

Gary:
Yes, lucky that it's on fire.

Ben:
You don't think you'd remember Lazerpig?

Brian:
Ah, yeah, it's kind of my late Emma's ear.

Gary:
So there and that and the Grace Darling Hotel on Smith street. She also sang great, well they did, and then [inaudible 00:31:37] doesn't work with those girls anymore. He then built this pizza truck that was running around, it was actually at moon dog for a while.

Ben:
Yep.

Gary:
And he doesn't have any use for it and he actually built this new place. And he said, "Hey, can I drop it here?" And I'm like, "Dude, I would love to have pizza." Because to have permanent pizza and I don't have to worry about food. I don't have to build a grease trap. I don't have to do anything. It's like, he'll just come in, he'll look after all the pizza. People will sit down-

Ben:
That's great.

Gary:
... and eat and drink and yeah. So this place is a urban winery. So it's an idea that I had every since we worked in California. And see it all comes back to California, so there was a bar there, or place, sorry not a bar, a winery called Rosenblum.

Brian:
That's right.

Gary:
And every year we would do the three R's in comparative tasting. It was Ravenswood, Ridge, and Rosenblum. There'd be this annual event, we sit down and all the wine makers and all the people involved would have this great dinner, and we'd try everybody's new releases, pre-releases.

Gary:
And so the Rosenblum guys were really nice and they invited me down and went and had look around. They had this cool little, it was, literally, like warehouse on the Alameda docks. And the Alameda docks in Oakland, at that time they, literally, were the epicenter of the crack whores, this was not... it was a very salubrious neighborhood. But they had this cool little place, and they were just doing little one ton ferments and they would sell literally as much booze as the could make out the front door.

Ben:
Right.

Gary:
And I was like, fuck, this is the coolest thing I've ever seen. It's totally urban environment. Nothing to do with wine. No vineyards, this is downtown Oakland on the dock. I was like, Yeah, I reckon this would work. Every since then I've had the idea to do it, and I'm not, it's the same thing, I'm not reinventing the wheel. That Noisy Ritual who down the road on Lygon street it's a different sort of MO there. Their's is very much a people-powered, come in and press their own wine and-

Ben:
Sure.

Gary:
Yeah, but it's an urban facility, and there's a guy in Sydney A. Retief, Alex Retief, who's done Open Winery Sydney. So-

Ben:
Yep.

Gary:
... I'm not the first one to do it. I mean, I've had the idea for a long time.

Brian:
I think now, in Oakland, I think they've got that whole urban winery trail-

Gary:
Yes.

Brian:
... there's so many that are popping up.

Gary:
In Portland. That's Portland.

Brian:
Oh, no Oakland, in the Bay area.

Gary:
Oh, they're... is there and urban winery trail?

Brian:
Yeah, yeah.

Gary:
Okay. I didn't know that.

Brian:
Yeah.

Gary:
Far out, really?

Brian:
Yeah, it's nuts.

Gary:
That's cool.

Brian:
It's named after you actually Gary [crosstalk 00:33:45]. When we visited there and told them it was such an auspicious occasion, I thought they might have actually picked up on that.

Gary:
You know that there's 42 urban wineries in Portland, so the whole idea, it's a proven... sorry, you can edit that bump out-

Ben:
Yeah, I don't know how to. [crosstalk 00:33:59] It's probably going to stay in. That was a bump.

Gary:
That was a bump. That was a chair bump.

Ben:
Yeah, you can move the microphone, you don't have to move the-

Brian:
Move the chair.

Gary:
Ah, this thing moves?

Ben:
Yeah, yeah, it moves.

Gary:
Wow.

Ben:
Yeah, so.

Gary:
That's more my back posture.

Ben:
Right.

Gary:
So I could just see you. Yeah, so it's a proven model that works, and it sort of... I mean, I can tell you why it hasn't happened in Melbourne a lot, because it's a fucking annoying process. It takes along time and it's really expensive, and-

Ben:
Is that mainly just red tape?

Gary:
Red tape, yeah. Just getting everything through, and yeah, we have the... there's the additional ideas which I now will have to consider, which is phylloxera protocols. If I could have done this in Footscray, or something like that, I would have done it, because the rent there being so cheap. But Footscray becomes a phylloxera exclusion zone, so you can't bring Yarra Valley fruit into-

Ben:
Wow.

Gary:
I'm mainly Yarra Valley based, I mean, Yarra vineyards also some other places but my vineyard that I farm and look after is in Yarra Valley, so you can't bring anything pretty much west of Sydney road.

Ben:
Right.

Gary:
It's an exclusion zone, so that's protecting Grampians and protecting South Australia effectively, so there's no grape raw material to crossover. Yarra Valley's a phylloxera infestation zone, which means now fruit's supposed to be able to transport out of that. But you can transport fruit from phylloxera infestation zone to infestation zone, so I can bring my Beechworth fruit into the Yarra Valley. You just need a permit to transport it across what is now called the phylloxera restriction zone, which I am here. So I can bring restriction zone fruit in and I-

Ben:
And infestation zone-

Gary:
Infestation zone, a wine excluding zone I can. You can bring anything out of Grampians.

Ben:
So how do you deal with your vineyard?

Gary:
Up until last week my vineyard was in the restriction zone, and now they've just found a new, apparently, Killara Estate in Yarra Valley has just been found to have phylloxera, so now my vineyard is in the infestation zone. So now that's new challenges. So what I'll probably have to do at the very the little is have it get pressed somewhere in the infestation zone.

Ben:
Right.

Gary:
Pressed and clarified. Of course, I'm going to filter all my juice and bring it down here. Would never think of not filtering my juice.

Brian:
Nah, definitely.

Ben:
You have to show off.

Gary:
Absolutely. I love clean pale juice that has no nutrient value, or no-

Brian:
You can add it back you know, they've got packets for that now.

Gary:
Packets of-

Brian:
Yeah.

Gary:
Dried? Dehydrated?

Brian:
Exactly.

Gary:
Terrior. Is there packets of terrior, we could get one of those as well.

Brian:
Oh, I was thinking about that before when you were talking about that fruit you'd got in that was pristine and you rang the winemaker, because the seller sheet, which is your instructions, for what's coming in says all this stuff. I worked at Howard Park and we would have these sheets which would have an addition of terrior, and we'd just get a bucket of dirt and gravel and have it next to the crusher. And we'd tell the French interns who were coming in [crosstalk 00:36:51] all the additions and we're going to put the tartaric in, and we've got this tannin or whatever the winemaker [crosstalk 00:36:51]-

Gary:
He had decided.

Brian:
Yeah. And the terrior, and they'd just be looking at each other going, "This is not terrior." "No, no this is it, you see this bucket? Bucket has to go into there that's how it works. The terrior." And they would get all the way to doing it, just swear and they sort of [crosstalk 00:37:14] posse where all together [crosstalk 00:37:16]-

Gary:
Put it down Australian.

Brian:
Aussie pigs. Some sort of bullshit.

Gary:
[French 00:37:20]

Brian:
And then we'd stop them at the last minute. Yeah, and still angry for the 10 minutes afterwards, until they realized we were just pulling the piss. So you can-

Gary:
I think I'm going to have to do that as well.

Brian:
Yeah, it's good fun. Absolutely.

Gary:
But there actually is, I saw recently that there's a company who are pitching cultured yeast as terrior, and they're actually called Terrior. That's the brand name that they have for these cultured yeast and some terrior a while back. Yeah.

Brian:
Wow, dude.

Gary:
Yeah, you guys get it. You really get it.

Ben:
That's funny.

Gary:
Yeah, so this place will be... I plan to be, this is Melbourne's only first 100% owner operator, where a 100% of the wines made on site are sold on site. You know what I mean?

Ben:
Sure.

Gary:
So it's not like I'm buying in wines to be... I mean, I'm going to sell some of my mates wines, so your wines and stuff. We'll have these different events-

Ben:
Nope, not Brian's [crosstalk 00:38:16]-

Gary:
Not Brian's, no not Brian's wine. They don't exist yet-

Brian:
That's great. Yeah, true.

Gary:
Oh, no you're still selling his wine-

Brian:
I am yeah. We're quite low actually.

Gary:
All right I'll have some of his wine.

Brian:
Thanks man. [inaudible 00:38:26], no Aligianico-

Gary:
Yeah, there you go exactly-

Brian:
Probably, [crosstalk 00:38:29] a lot of sulfides.

Gary:
Those are the kind of things [crosstalk 00:38:29]-

Brian:
Aligianico probably up your alley, I think.

Gary:
Yep.

Brian:
Okay. Cloudy-

Gary:
Well, it's [crosstalk 00:38:33]. I mean, I can do whatever I want, so this will be my thing to do whatever I want. I'm going to have a events, I'm going to do... just have fun.

Ben:
Cool. Did you graffiti? Any graffiti, or?

Gary:
No, no it can be cleaner, something. You don't have to ask for graffiti, it'll happen.

Ben:
Yeah.

Gary:
Not inside anyway.

Brian:
Yep.

Ben:
I think was should probably start with some graffiti ourselves.[crosstalk 00:38:52]

Brian:
Get a sharpie.

Gary:
Just draw a massive cock and balls on the wall-

Ben:
Everywhere.

Brian:
Did that just before [crosstalk 00:38:56].

Gary:
If I see a cock and balls I'll know who to [inaudible 00:39:00] asshole now. Yeah, I can do weddings. There's real money in weddings and events. But [inaudible 00:39:06] I like food truck or things. It's not going to be free food. It's very non-traditional cellar door in a sense that non-traditional for the Yarra Valley and Victoria. It's not a place you can come and do... I'm not giving stuff away. I'm not giving booze away. You can come and have a glass of wine. You can do [inaudible 00:39:24]. So I vintage wines. I have wines back to 2003.

Ben:
Awesome.

Gary:
So I'll be selling them and be giving food tastes and so it'll be-

Ben:
And have a pizza.

Gary:
Have pizza.

Ben:
Is that the only-

Gary:
There'll be some charcuterie-

Ben:
Oh, cool.

Gary:
... and cheeses and there's a really cool company up the road they do great taurines and we're going to make our own meats and do our own smoke goods. Get a cheese, get a meat slice. Get some cheeses, do cheese boards and stuff like that.

Brian:
When you say weddings, would you have a sort of a Vegas chapel? So when people-

Gary:
I am going to become an ordained minister [crosstalk 00:39:52]-

Brian:
Yeah.

Gary:
No, I'm not.

Brian:
So when people get really whacked, well, they will-

Gary:
I'm going to have you can get married at the front, and divorced at the back.

Brian:
Yeah.

Gary:
Yeah.

Brian:
What's the-

Ben:
You can have a drive-thru, you drive through-

Brian:
Yeah, "What's in that room?" "Ah that's where you get married after the [inaudible 00:40:04]." "Ah, excellent."

Ben:
"And what's in that room?"

Gary:
"That's where you get divorced." If I'd seen this building somewhere I'd want to hangout with a kind of... It's just going to be like an open brewery that is so hot right now. There's open breweries everywhere, and then I'll, instead of that I'll be making wine. I'm going to have beer and so eventually distill stuff as well.

Ben:
Nice.

Gary:
We'll be fully integrated.

Ben:
And opening soon.

Gary:
Yeah, I'm hopefully going to have the bar and temporary license ready to go in July, is the plan.

Brian:
Oh, cool.

Gary:
Sometime in July.

Ben:
And the name? Gary Mills House of Awesome?

Gary:
No, it's Jamsheed Urban Winery.

Ben:
Nice.

Gary:
It's a really inventive title. I've thought long and hard about.

Ben:
Sure.

Gary:
Jamsheed Wine's Urban Winery by Jamsheed.

Ben:
Gary Mills reserved signature series.

Gary:
So there's going to be a wine makers section family reserve Yarra Valley Yarra Range Gulch.

Ben:
And how long's it taken?

Gary:
It took me four years to find this site.

Ben:
Right.

Gary:
I'd been actively looking for sites for four years.

Ben:
Using Apple maps or something?

Gary:
Geomapping.

Brian:
Just walking, walking. Just walking the streets, actively.

Gary:
My girlfriend-

Brian:
In active wear? Were you in active wear?

Gary:
Yeah, yeah, totally.

Brian:
Okay, cool.

Gary:
No, just skins. No pants.

Brian:
Our [inaudible 00:41:19] doing that and then loading up his the boat.

Gary:
Pink skins.

Brian:
His wife said to him-

Gary:
Why?

Brian:
... "You look fine. That's fine."

Gary:
Everyone wants to see your block and tackle. They really do.

Brian:
It's fine.

Gary:
But no, my girlfriend is so sick of driving around places and going, "I looked at that. I looked at that warehouse. I looked at that. I looked at that." She's like, "Just fucking shut up. I know you looked at a lot of places."

Brian:
Just look at me for once.

Gary:
Yeah, that's easy, all right. You know what's it like, you've got wineries. It's quite particular what you want for a winery. A building doesn't a winery make. All it needs to be is cheap, which is what I got. No.

Brian:
And accessible I think.

Gary:
Accessible, yes exactly.

Ben:
And lots of space.

Brian:
Clearly [crosstalk 00:42:06] you want people to come here.

Gary:
This place is hot. It's ridiculous.

Brian:
You can play rugby in here.

Gary:
Yeah, you could. Well, I was tempted to put a batting cage at one point in. Like a hitting cage at one time.

Brian:
Well, there's got to be ping pong.

Gary:
There's a pool table coming, so-

Ben:
You still playing baseball?

Gary:
Yeah, yeah. We didn't have a game this weekend, because the Queen's birthday weekend.

Ben:
Right she doesn't like baseball.

Gary:
Queen's not a fan.

Ben:
Right.

Gary:
We respect the Queen. We celebrate the birthday, we don't play baseball. No. Yeah, I'm playing. I play for the Melbourne Union, so-

Ben:
Just started that in here, or Japan or-

Gary:
I've been playing baseball in Perth. I played for West Stirling Indians from-

Ben:
Right.

Gary:
... when I was 13. I played for quite a little-

Ben:
How'd you get into it?

Gary:
... 30 odd years now. Don't know-

Ben:
Because you're a pitcher, right?

Gary:
Mainly because Cricket was really boring.

Ben:
Yep.

Gary:
Yeah. You stand around just picking your nose in the outfield and Cricket is going this is the worst. No one can hit a ball that far. And then I had a mate at primary school who was like, and there was a baseball club, literally, next door to the cricket ground, and he's like, "You can throw the ball can't you?" I was like, "Yeah." He's like, "You're a left-hander, aren't you?" I was like, "Yeah." And so, "Okay, come play baseball." And it was all over in a couple hours. And there's something happening every pitch, so there's always something to do. And as a pitcher-

Brian:
You're actually really good though ain't you? And you blew your shoulder out.

Gary:
I blew my shoulder out, yeah. That's because I was on the team.

Brian:
But you're were on the way though weren't you?

Gary:
I got scouted. There was just one thing though that was always in my way, is I was never good enough, so-

Ben:
Right.

Gary:
So it's a really high [crosstalk 00:43:27]-

Ben:
That's the same as me with a lot of things.

Gary:
Yeah.

Ben:
Never got scouted-

Brian:
Yeah, no never.

Gary:
But I reckon if I'd been 19 now, I would have had a free college education in the states. For those kids, this is the beauty of it, there's kids going over there... We've got three kids in our club at the moment are currently in the middle of a 28 day baseball festival in Myrtle Beach in South Carolina. And they're just playing 28 games of baseball in 28 days, and there's just scouts and colleges and pro scouts and everybody over there just having a look at them. And two of them have already found college scholarships.

Ben:
Oh, wow.

Gary:
And they're good. They're good. I mean, they've proved better than I am when I-

Brian:
Don't tell them that.

Gary:
... was 19.

Brian:
No, don't tell them that.

Ben:
I'll edit that one.

Gary:
But if you told them your left handed and can throw a half decent fastball then they want to see you, because that's the money in baseball.

Ben:
Right, because most all batters [crosstalk 00:44:15]-

Gary:
Because left handed pitchers-

Ben:
... are right handed.

Gary:
It's just a thing about lefties, they're harder to hit, so.

Ben:
Right.

Gary:
Deception, whatever.

Brian:
Same as in that really great game cricket.

Gary:
Cricket, yeah, lefties-

Brian:
That you mentioned earlier.

Ben:
Yeah.

Brian:
[crosstalk 00:44:28]-

Gary:
I love cricket. I still watch cricket. I just never wanted to play cricket.

Brian:
Ah, fair enough.

Gary:
And cricket, like bowling, is really hard on your back. Bowlers don't have a long shelf life. Whereas pitchers, my great hero in baseball is Randy Johnson, the Unit, the only man who's ever killed a bird in flight with a pitch.

Ben:
Right.

Gary:
Google it. The YouTube, it's one of the most amazing things you'll ever see-

Ben:
Okay, cool.

Gary:
... this bird explodes.

Ben:
Oh, no.

Gary:
He hits it with like a 97 mile an hour fastball, and it's just like boom. There was once a bird, so... Anyway, so he pitched in the majors when he was 46. He threw a no hitter-

Ben:
And that means, obviously, [crosstalk 00:45:05]-

Gary:
That's when no-

Ben:
Yeah.

Gary:
No hits. No runs, no hits, shut out. And he threw them when he was 40, that's a professional. So there was more longevity in baseball.

Ben:
Right.

Gary:
I always wanted to be [crosstalk 00:45:15]

Brian:
There's heaps more drugs as well in America to take to sort of keep everything-

Gary:
Ah, yeah, there's a great history-

Brian:
... going.

Gary:
... of drugs. But all sports are like that.

Brian:
I'm not saying that the fellow you mentioned was a drug taker either.

Gary:
Probably everyone took everything.

Brian:
Okay, oh.

Ben:
A little of that as well too. Did you play any sports?

Brian:
Heaps of sports, not well. But I did play lots of sport. Yeah, I played a lot of free... Golf was my game. I like golf.

Ben:
There's longevity in that.

Gary:
Golf.

Brian:
There is yeah. I've rebuilt my swing, so I've been playing really bad golf of late.

Ben:
Are the kids into it? The boys.

Brian:
Yeah, they will be, because yeah, look, I'm-

Gary:
They will be. They don't [crosstalk 00:45:50] have a choice.

Brian:
Yeah, I mean-

Gary:
[crosstalk 00:45:53] are you.

Brian:
No, they're all kind of... Malachi's into... he loves his cricket.

Gary:
Okay.

Brian:
But we wanted to get him into baseball this season, he's a lefty as well, and he's quite a big unit now, he's getting quite strong.

Ben:
How old is he?

Brian:
So we'll get him in to it next year. Might even bring him down to your club actually.

Gary:
Yeah, bring down to [inaudible 00:46:08], if he's a junior-

Brian:
Yeah, that's where they've told me to take him-

Gary:
Yeah, that's the best, yeah.

Brian:
But I-

Gary:
Seriously, that's where you get the best coaching and there are skills-

Brian:
I'll get him... I might even ring you on Tuesday.

Gary:
Yeah.

Brian:
No, I just played every sport I loved it. I just was sort of master of none, really, just enjoyed it. I don't know. I wasn't like nowadays where it sort of you're on your phone, we didn't have mobile phones. We just, literally, all we did in Perth was play sport everyday, after school, before school, so it was good.

Gary:
Yeah, I played every winter it was hockey and foot ball, and in summer it was surfing and cricket and baseball and this and then you'd just play some things for fun.

Ben:
A lot more light, yeah.

Gary:
Because the list of options that you had down in Margaret River were always just amazing weren't they.

Ben:
Yeah.

Gary:
So many things at your doorstep.

Ben:
Well, I didn't grow up down there. I was all over the shop, but yeah, when we were in freo it was just as many hangout at the train station, fishing of the mall.

Brian:
Hey, hey, come on I'm an [inaudible 00:47:04] coming man it's group fun.

Ben:
Yeah, I know that's sardine-

Brian:
Can't eat them, but [crosstalk 00:47:12]-

Gary:
Make good soups.

Ben:
So what's next for you Brian? More wine?

Brian:
I'm trying... Lucky, I will eventually makes some wine. Now, it's just sort of giving my wife a chance to have a career after having had the three boys. Really wanting her to have a crack. Still selling Izway. Selling Izway and enjoying that very much in Melbourne. So I still got my hand in the game. Yeah, and just a few other sort of commercial ventures outside of wine. Just having a crack at some other stuff. I came in as a business man, before I was a winemaker, so I'll always be that. I guess, that's probably a bit to do with why our business was commercially successful. We're a team, obviously, but that was... I came in with a bit of acme in business. It's all well and good to make nice wines that-

Gary:
God, I wish I'd-

Brian:
... people wish to drink.

Gary:
... had that when I started. I had no idea.

Brian:
No, I think you did Gary. It's just about that your wines are rubbish. I mean... I'm sorry I couldn't resist.

Gary:
You couldn't resist. No, I reckon it's the other way around. I reckon I'm fucking lucky that I can make a decent bottle of wine, because I'm a shit business man.

Brian:
Ah, no, I can't see someone being in the game making what you... Your first vintage was, your first one was '03.

Gary:
Yeah.

Brian:
I mean, someone that's been making wine for 16 years and still standing are, I think, a story of success, but-

Gary:
For once this [inaudible 00:48:28] going to be very different story, but yeah, it's tough at the moment.

Ben:
I think, for what I'm notice, time in the markets speaking to people, it's tough for everyone.

Gary:
Tough for everything, yeah.

Ben:
As Brian said, if you're not half decent at business, at the end of the day it's a business. If you're not selling it, then you can't afford to make it the next year and-

Gary:
No, exactly.

Ben:
... [crosstalk 00:48:46] over.

Brian:
Don't take me a while, I came into wine from absolute passion. My first wine I had was with my dad when I was sort of 16. A really nice wine, and that kind of opened my eyes. He always loved good wine. That really is why I got into the wine business. But it just so happens that I had... I mean, probably the biggest thing for me wasn't so much a business background, but it was seeing... not to be too morbid about it, but my father's business failed dismally, and I saw that. I learnt my lesson about going. That's just not going to happen, and you just fight tooth and nail. And that's what I kind of brought to the business, and we didn't start with a lot, but yeah, it was successful and-

Ben:
That's great.

Gary:
Yeah, very successful.

Ben:
Yeah, well done.

Brian:
Yeah, it's good fun.

Gary:
Yeah, I looked at it... yeah, my dad was the same. He was always a small business owner and just sort of saw his work ethic and what's required to do it, and there's a certain level of stubbornness and you can't be fragile. You can't have a fragile ego in this business and take the hits and keep rolling.

Ben:
Yeah. I remember at the beginning when I was making wine at Deepwoods and someone would come back and say, "Oh, I didn't like that wine." And I'd just take it completely personally, and just be down for days. Then when you get sort of more of a perspective on things, well, that's fine, I didn't like your shirt, so-

Gary:
Yeah, you've got a stupid face.

Ben:
... everyone's got different... yeah, and your stupid face. You everyone's got different-

Brian:
She used to be my girlfriend.

Gary:
No, not exactly my-

Ben:
If people liked the same stuff, we'd all be drink yellow tail.

Gary:
Yeah, totally. And one of the best decisions I ever made was, and to not do, was not sell my own wine. Because I tried to rate my own wine for the first couple years, and you'd spend a year of your blood, sweat, and tears you're in a debt and you've got this beautiful wine that you're so proud of, and you show it to this kid, pimply face, 19 year old, and he's like, "It's a bit green." I'm like, "I'm going to fucking stab you." So it's very good I don't have sell my own wine now.

Ben:
Sure. I used to do it, and we had some horror stories.

Gary:
Yep.

Ben:
I even tried to do it in Sydney from Margaret River, so that went okay.

Gary:
Well, Sydney's actually a good market-

Brian:
You've done very well with selling your own wine, but... sorry go ahead. You've done extremely well, always selling your own wine, don't be talking it down.

Ben:
I've spoken about this before, but to put it in perspective I used to do all the sales in Perth up to two years ago, I'd say, when we got a wholesaler. And I was like, "I can't sell with a wholesaler. I can't give up that cut, that 30%s really important." Within six months they were selling more at a higher price than what I was selling it at. And I was in a better off position.

Gary:
And you weren't having to chase cash, and the amount of hours involved in trying to sell [crosstalk 00:51:23]-

Ben:
Exactly. But I was getting more than I was selling direct. The wholesaler was paying me more.

Gary:
Yeah.

Ben:
Because I was just really shit at it. No, I think what happened is you just have so many balls in the air you get to point you're not doing any job really well, and so I has some barnacle who put on people who were like, "Yeah, same price man, that's all good." Things that I have to get you, that saves me another trip to Perth and another couple days.

Gary:
Yeah.

Brian:
Yeah, and not enough time to work on the business. You're saying.

Ben:
Yeah.

Brian:
I mean, that was a lot of the reason I got out of Izway. I got out of Izway, because I was very happy with where it was at, and I was very happy that Craig and his wife wanted to buy my share. And they live on the property, but a lot of that stuff kind of wore me down. The mini share of it all, but I really, I was the opposite, I loved selling the wine.

Gary:
Yeah, I think-

Brian:
I mean, we had to do it. I know you enjoyed it, but it's-

Gary:
No, no I really didn't enjoy it-

Brian:
Yeah, you didn't enjoy it-

Gary:
... I'm not a natural salesman. No, I really didn't.

Brian:
... all that's what I was about to say.

Gary:
Actually. I mean, I enjoyed when each one sold, but I hated the process. You're a natural salesperson. You're a lot more gregarious about that.

Brian:
But I was terrible with people. If there was rejection, I couldn't stand it. I'd get to the point where I was going... At some point I'd already had the conversation with certain restaurants, I've already had the conversation in my head, and I go, "is that goal a dream, go on." "no, no bro. So whatever." And you go, "Shut up, it's really it good. It is actually from terrior." And they're like, "Okay, whatever, no." And they hand up. And then I'll actually ring, and they go, "Yeah, hi, Izway. Yeah, no, I'd love to try that. Yeah, I've drank some of that stuff before, really love it. What kind." And you go, "Oh, yeah, okay cool." I should be more like that all the time.

Gary:
See I'm the opposite. I still have this list and much to Kathy's frustration there's-

Ben:
This is Kathy [inaudible 00:53:07]-

Gary:
Kathy [inaudible 00:53:07], my sales rep the distributing company, and there's still a list of people I refuse to sell to because they said no first.

Ben:
Right.

Gary:
Like there's a company owned restaurants, local restaurants-

Ben:
[crosstalk 00:53:19] everything for me.

Gary:
No, I'm not going to name it, but I'd call them up and go "This, Jamsheed wines there's a new wine, we're doing come tastes the wines." They were like, "No. Don't want to taste any new wines." They'd be like, "You don't even want to taste them?" They'd be like, "No." I'm going overwrite a black line [crosstalk 00:53:41] names, and there's still black lines under their name. "They want some wine now." "No, they can't have any."

Ben:
What was the reason they didn't like-

Gary:
I don't know. Didn't know the brand, didn't want to see it. Didn't care, didn't care enough to even try it.

Ben:
I've got the best idea for these places for you. You can get printed toilet paper now. So you should just print the names of those people on the toilet paper-

Gary:
And have them in the toilets.

Ben:
... and have them in the toilets, yeah.

Gary:
Ah, yeah.

Brian:
That's a good idea.

Gary:
I just love it when they... And Kathy will come in again, and she's like, "Such and such wants to but some wine." And I'm like, "No, no, no. I said, no."

Brian:
Do you have [crosstalk 00:54:10]-

Gary:
"Gary that was 15 years ago."

Brian:
Do yo have the book in your pocket?

Gary:
I'm like, "No."

Brian:
Because you just carry it around.

Ben:
It's been six [crosstalk 00:54:21] new owners-

Gary:
You might need to work at that.

Ben:
Six new owners and it's in a different building.

Brian:
It's burned down twice.

Gary:
Yeah, and it's been rebuilt.

Brian:
It's been renamed five times. No, no it's the same address.

Gary:
I know who it is.

Ben:
Oh, funny.

Brian:
Their spirit is still in the building.

Ben:
So where are we going to go for beer?

Gary:
I don't know where do you fell like. Well, now Bulls closed. Can you drink another beer or are sort-

Brian:
No, I'm antibiotics. Two is the limit.

Gary:
Okay.

Brian:
Well, it's not.

Gary:
Do you want to come and have lemonade while we have a beer?

Brian:
Yeah, why not.

Gary:
Okay, good. Cool. We'll find somewhere.

Ben:
Carwyn Cellars maybe?

Gary:
I can give you a lift back to the city too.

Brian:
Yeah, sweet.

Ben:
All right, well, we can wrap it up. You can find Gary at... what's the address here?

Gary:
4 Albert Street Preston.

Ben:
For Gary's House of Love and special things, and then it will be open in-

Gary:
Hopefully in July. It's watch this space. I'm doing a crowdfunding campaign, you probably won't get this out before the crowd funding... I'm starting a crowdfunding campaign-

Ben:
We don't have internet in Western Australia.

Gary:
Crowdfunding campaign starting-

Brian:
For Tatters, or-

Gary:
Yeah.

Brian:
What is a crowdfunding-

Gary:
I want money. Cold hard cash.

Brian:
So to set the bar up.

Ben:
Right.

Gary:
It's more for the second development to get the second... it's mainly for the disabled access, because we build [crosstalk 00:55:30] disable ramp-

Brian:
Yeah, of course, yeah.

Gary:
It'll be the to do thing well, I pretty much paid for everything now, but it's mainly for the second development, which will be a permanent wine bar, up top second sort of space.

Ben:
And that's a separate entrance from outside?

Gary:
Yes. Separate thing all together, but just to be able splice off and have more and more.

Ben:
What's that going to be called?

Gary:
Don't know.

Ben:
Yeah, cool.

Gary:
Upstairs den [crosstalk 00:55:57] of antiquity.

Brian:
What if the guys that [crosstalk 00:55:59] didn't want to buy your wine for starters crowdfund you? Are you going to take their [crosstalk 00:56:05] money?

Gary:
Oh, I'll take their money. Yeah.

Brian:
So is that the reversal-

Gary:
No, they don't get any wine though.

Ben:
All right. Okay.

Brian:
So that's-

Gary:
I'm kidding.

Brian:
That's bitter.

Ben:
That's really being honest. That's pretty dark buddy.

Brian:
That's dark.

Gary:
They have a special place in the corner of my cold dark heart.

Brian:
Thanks for the money, you are not welcome. You are not welcome.

Gary:
"I know who you are." "But I gave you some money." "I don't care, do you want it back?"

Ben:
Classic.

Gary:
We're going to [inaudible 00:56:31] and do some [French 00:56:31].

Ben:
Cool.

Gary:
I bought some bigger toys, and big barrels and-

Ben:
And then you on-

Gary:
And have big [crosstalk 00:56:37]-

Ben:
No one's on Twitter anymore?

Gary:
No, I'm on Insta.

Ben:
Cool.

Gary:
Jamsheed wines at Instagram.

Ben:
That's easy. Are you on Insta?

Brian:
Yes. Izway wines is on Insta. Yes.

Ben:
Cool.

Brian:
I'm not really good at it so, Craig and Catherine look after that side of things, which is good.

Gary:
Ah, that's why there's a lot of topless photos of Craig on there isn't it.

Brian:
Ah, nude?

Ben:
Yeah, full nude.

Gary:
Nude too.

Brian:
But I-

Gary:
One of push ups.

Brian:
No, I don't really... I read a lot of books now. I'm trying to not look at my phone as much, but it's very important for everyone that needs to now where Gary is and also the Jamsheed and Izway wines get on there but-

Gary:
My [crosstalk 00:57:13]-

Brian:
Izway underscore wines, yeah.

Gary:
My scam card is pretty much bad photos of food, so and stupid things. I think Instagram generally should be just-

Brian:
It is, it is.

Gary:
... to take the mickey out of people as much as possible. That's sort of all I think Instagrams about. Be as funny as possible.

Ben:
Yeah, I'll show you something-

Brian:
Take the typicity-

Gary:
Take the [crosstalk 00:57:30] shut it off.

Ben:
It is the most hilarious... Anyway, I'm just going to leave it at that, but it's something I've got to show you-

Gary:
We'll [crosstalk 00:57:37]-

Ben:
... it's fantastic. Oh, well, thanks for the time let's-

Brian:
Thanks Ben.

Ben:
... go crack a beer. Don't know if this will ever make it to air, but for all seven people listening-

Brian:
Thanks boys.

Gary:
Hey, speaking of beer, how's your brewery coming?

Ben:
Yeah, good. Yeah, so-

Gary:
Did you bring your beer?

Ben:
You've got three cartons Gary. I don't think there was much in the need for another one.

Gary:
That's was a little [crosstalk 00:57:56].

Ben:
Did you every know Happy Brad Jacobsen down in Margaret? He used to work at Caves? The Jacobsen's his dad Tony lived on... Tony and Gilda, his mom and dad, lived around the gallery, was that Highs road-

Gary:
Highs road, yeah.

Ben:
Yeah, he just seems like the sort of guy that would know your dad.

Gary:
Yeah, probably, well, I mean, he's around.

Ben:
Well, I've done pilot, but yeah, brewery is built. The tanks out of it, and that's on the water so it should have been today, might have been Saturday just gone, and then that's going to Avalon beach, but we hope to open... We're actually brewing off site. We got cans printed Thursday. We've made beer for two years getting the recipe right, but the new can is on printed last Thursday, and then we should be opening the bar first of August.

Gary:
Great. And where is it?

Ben:
Avalon Beach, so-

Gary:
Which ones Avalon Beach?

Ben:
Well, it's sort of up on that peninsula, so you've got-

Brian:
It's the really beachy one.

Ben:
Yeah, it's quite beachy. So you start at Manly's northern beaches. So you start at manly and you go up through-

Gary:
Oh, it's New South Wales.

Ben:
Mona Valley... yeah.

Gary:
I geez, I was just trying to think of Avalon Beach in Margaret River, no.

Ben:
No, so it's over in New South Wales.

Gary:
Good.

Ben:
Yeah, it's pretty cool. So I've got the only industrial site in Avalon Beach. The other one is the petrol station. Well, commercial site, everything else is just retail.

Gary:
So how many liters are you going to brew?

Ben:
We're restricted to 90 thousand liters on that site, because of waste water, flood, et cetera. So other stuff we'll just do off site.

Gary:
Off site-

Ben:
So this gears being done at a place called Australian Brewery. They're just going to do our first batch and so then we can open with something. While we're trying to work this brewery out.

Gary:
Great.

Ben:
It should be good.

Gary:
Well, that's exciting.

Ben:
Yeah, it'll be good. I'll send you some.

Brian:
When's the opening?

Gary:
I'll come up.

Ben:
We're not sure, because we haven't heard-

Brian:
We will both go up that-

Ben:
Yeah, yeah. I like beer.

Gary:
I like opening, so I'm really good at opening-

Ben:
Really.

Gary:
Yeah. Because they're all free.

Brian:
Do you do the ticket taste? Are the ticker tape man?

Ben:
That's your other Instagram account isn't it, Gary's good at opening.

Gary:
Gary's good at opening. Gary loves free things.

Ben:
Yeah, cool. I'll shut it down. Thanks guys.

Gary:
Bye guys.

Brian:
Thanks Benji.

Ben:
Thank you for listening to episode three. Check out show notes at realwinepeople.com. Please subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, and if you leave a writing that is really cool too. And tell your friends that would be helpful in lots of many ways. Thanks again, have a great day.

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